[Laura] Welcome to the Saturn's Favorite Music Podcast. We're up to episode five. This is exciting. The Saturn's Favorite Music Podcast follows the book Saturn's Favorite Music, which was set in a radio station in 1992 to 1993. It's not about the book per se, but it follows all of the music references. We do a deep dive into every song mentioned in the book, which is a combination of the stuff that was played on the air and the stuff that DJs listen to in their houses and the songs that they argued about and the stuff that was in the back room of the radio station. So today's guest is friend of the pod, Jenny Hunter, from Episode Two Fame. Hello, Jenny. [Jenny] Hi, everyone. [Laura] It's it's great to have you back, and it should be lots of fun. We've got we going back to the radio station. The last couple of episodes were in Clara's house or the club, and so we had the last couple of episodes were in Clara's house or the club, and we had the music that she likes to listen to. This is back to the radio station. [Jenny] Well, it's good to be back. I'm excited to do this again. [Laura] So the first song that we've got is a little song by a a band from England that you might have heard of. They're called The Beatles. [Jenny] Hmm. I feel like I may have heard of them before. [Laura] It's a song called Hey Jude, and it appears in the book when Clara wakes up in the morning before her first day of work and she's listening to her clock radio and she's listening to the people that are going to be her coworkers in a few minutes in the half hour or so. And the character of Seth, the morning man, says, yes, it's the nearly infinite Hey Jude on your light rock more music station. Good morning. It's seven thirty one. I hope you were singing along with that one. So Hey Jude is a sing along. [Jenny] Yeah, I was going to say definitely a worse song. You could definitely have worse songs to wake up to than Hey Jude. Like, I feel like that would be a good wake up noise. [Laura] I had kind of a hard time with Hey Jude, just thinking about what to say about it, because it's just so familiar. And it's not even a song that takes you back to a place and time for me because it came out before I was born. So it just always existed and was always there and is just sort of part of the fabric of life. [Jenny] Yeah, no, I agree. Kind of the first record albums that I listened to were my mom's Beatles albums. And she had Hey Jude. And I remember listening to it. And I don't remember a time prior to that, you know, so I'm with you. It's just always been there. [Laura] My my mom. My mom had a 45 of I want to hold your hand, but really, I was the Beatles fan when I was in school and I tried to buy every Beatles record I could get my hands on. And one of the things when I was thinking about Hey Jude, I think when we were young. And when we were talking about like the songs that got played the most on the radio, I actually think that yesterday was the big, big Beatles song when we were kids. Like, I think that that was the iconic Beatles song that got the most radio airplay. In fact, I remember. Yeah, I remember reading statistics about like that you could turn on a radio somewhere in the world at any time and yesterday would be playing. [Jenny] So fun fact. Remember the song that used we used to sing Space Debris? Yeah, that was to the tune of Yesterday. [Laura] Yeah, it was from Mad Magazine. [Jenny] Yeah, I knew that song before I knew yesterday. [Laura] No, I did not know that. [Jenny] Yeah, it was kind of a weird feeling, like especially talking to you about it at that time, because you obviously knew what song it was. I was like, I'm not telling her because I feel stupid. [Laura] Well, the working title of that one, Beatles fans will know, was Scrambled Eggs. [Jenny] Yep, I remember that. [Laura] Paul McCartney would say Scrambled Eggs, da, da, da, da, da, da, Scrambled Eggs. But yeah, I think that Hey Jude has really surpassed yesterday as the iconic Beatles song. You know, the one that everybody thinks of when they think of the Beatles or the ones that gets the most streams and plays. I think that yesterday was sort of a song that was of a different moment. And Hey Jude kind of resonates with people more today. [Jenny] Kind of transcends the moment almost. [Laura] Yeah, I mean, it was definitely popular in its time. It topped the charts for like nine weeks or something like that. So it's not like it was a slouch back in the day. [Jenny] Right. But it never went. You're right. It never went away. I mean, I can say it to my students and they still know what that song is. And that's been, you know, 50 some years. [Laura] And I think that the secret of it is that it's so anthemic. I mean, it's got a whole four minutes of the nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. And it's just a sing along kind of song, you know, and I used to imagine people coming together and slowly, like a couple of people were singing and then more people were singing and then the whole world was singing this song. And I think that that's what makes it like the great song for Paul McCartney, for example, to play in concert. [Jenny] I, I really like that thought of everybody kind of joining in. I think that's a beautiful image of kind of bringing everybody together with music. [Laura] And I think it fits with the theme of the lyrics, which is like taking a sad song and making it better, you know? [Jenny] Yeah, absolutely. [Laura] So I was reading a little bit about the song, Hey Jude, I know that. Julian Lennon had kind of a love hate relationship with the song, because if you don't know, Hey Jude was originally Hey Jules, and it was written for Julia Lennon when he was a boy. And it was written when the parents were hit. Cynthia Lennon and John Lennon were divorcing. And Paul McCartney went over to visit with Cynthia, who he'd been friends with since before the Beatles were famous, and to cheer up baby Julian. And he went home writing this song, Hey Jules, which became Hey Jude. And for Julian, you know, it's it's kind of a reminder of a period that was not a positive in his life. And so he's always had a love hate relationship with the song. [Jenny] How? OK, so on one hand, I love that Paul wrote the song for this child, trying to kind of soothe him and like this, you know, what's happening with your parents has nothing to do with you. It's not your fault. Kind of trying to help him cope with it. But then how awful as an adult that it's the quintessential Beatles song that every single person knows. So he's constantly got the pain of his parents divorce kind of thrown up at him. [Laura] Yeah, and I think with Julian, I mean, I can't speak for Julian Lennon, obviously, but, you know, you can imagine that this is an absent father from your life. You know, he left when Julian was a boy, a toddler, and then he married someone else and was very focused on the son from the second marriage. And he only saw him infrequently. But at the same time, everyone was seeing him as John's son and talking about John Lennon all the time. [Jenny] And while it's hard, it's hard to look at Julian Lennon and not talk about John, given that it looks exactly like his dad. [Laura] Yeah, and I mean, when he sings, I remember him saying that like he can't help that he sounds like his dad, especially like falsetto and stuff like that, that people would say, oh, he's trying to sound like John Lennon, you know, and he just sounds the way he sounds. [Jenny] I was going to say, he doesn't he's not trying. He just does. [Laura] So it's hard to imagine, you know, I you can certainly imagine all of the feelings that he must have had about this song, but obviously was a complicated. Song for him. [Jenny] Yeah, probably still is exactly. [Laura] Well, he his latest album actually is called Jude, so he named it after Hey Jude, and he said that it's facing up to who he is. So acknowledging his past and kind of trying to reincorporate that and not fight against the associations with John Lennon and with the Beatles and all of that. So it seems like he's kind of. Yeah, come to peace with it. [Jenny] Yeah, I like that. I think that's kind of cool that he, you know, embrace it rather than kind of push it aside because it is who he is. And he'll probably be more comfortable in his own skin if he just kind of embraces who he is. [Laura] John Lennon in 1980 in an interview said that he thought the song was actually about him, which is either arrogant or maybe partly true, because the lyrics about letting her into your heart, like the love song, parts of it are not about Julian Lennon, obviously. And John sort of interpreted those as Paul saying, like, go with Yoko. You know, go follow your heart. [Jenny] Now, see, I would have always thought that that those lines were about about Julian and letting Yoko into his heart, like this is going to be your stepmom. You're going to have to cope with her. Let her in so that you're happier. [Laura] Or it could just be that that part of it is just completing the song, you know, with a kind of love song lyric. [Jenny] Yeah, could be. Absolutely. [Laura] I mean, one of the things when I saw the movie Get Back and the Beatles are hanging out and writing songs, they did just kind of throw a lot of word sounds out there, you know. And some of it is definitely about Julian Lennon. You know, take a sad song and make it better. But there's some other stuff in there, too, I think. [Jenny] Which makes sense. Any good song is going to have layers to it. [Laura] So Hey Jude, I think is kind of the folk song of, you know, a folk song of our era, it's sort of our cultural heritage more than. You know, a pop song on the radio. [Jenny] Oh, I would agree. It crosses generations. It's like I said, my students all know it. You know, and it's a song that came out 50 plus years ago that they that they not just that they know it, but that they like it. Hmm. You know, and then our generation and our parents' generation and our kids and yeah, absolutely. Cross generational music. [Laura] This song will come up later in the book, although not in the podcast, because there's no reason to talk about it twice. But it's one of the long songs that the morning man, Seth, at one point, he rattles off all of the long songs and the lengths that he's memorized by heart. And at the time that I wrote that, that was, you know, while I was still fresh out of radio, all those song lengths are song lengths that I remembered by heart. And I think that this song is like 7:02 or something like that. So it's it's what DJs would call a bathroom song. [Jenny] Yeah, exactly. Got time to go and get back. Let's move it. [Laura] So what is your if you have any reaction, if you can think about what Hey Jude sounds like with fresh ears, what what is your take on Hey Jude? [Jenny] Well, I love it. I I'm not sure I can give a take with fresh ears, because like you said, it's been around for so much of my life, my whole life, that I don't remember a time without it. But I do. I do think of it as a almost perfect song, like there's nothing about it that I don't like. And so I would definitely if we're going to grade it, I would definitely give it an A. But I can't really give you a fresh ears kind of response to it because it's so much a part of fabric of everything we are. [Laura] I agree with that. I would I would second that emotion. So why don't we move on to song number two, which is Phil Collins. One More Night from 1985. And where this appears in the story is that Clara is arriving to be trained for her first air shift. And so the the DJs start playing one more night. The on air light goes off and she walks into the studio for the first time. So this is a very classic kind of AC adult contemporary song. And it's a song that I had forgotten I remembered. [Jenny] Same, same. I I really like Phil Collins. And so I was kind of excited when I saw that this was one of the songs we were going to talk about as far as because it was a Phil Collins song. But when I started listening to it, I was like, oh, yeah, I remember this one. But it was never one of my favorites by him. [Laura] Yeah, it's one of those one of those Phil Collins breakup songs, which he has a lot of. And I don't know if I remembered it from the title when I listened to it. I thought, oh, yeah, OK, I know that song. I know that song. But I think there's a reason I didn't remember it, which is that it pretty much has the same lyric over and over. It just says one more night, one more night. [Jenny] That's why I was kind of laughing when you first said that you didn't remember it by the title. I'm like, how could you not remember it by the title when that's literally what the song says over and over? [Laura] Do you have any guesses as to how many times the words one more night appear in the song? [Jenny] I don't. I know it's a lot, so I'm going to assume it's over 15. [Laura] Twenty six times. [Jenny] Wow. [Laura] So it's got a lot of that kind of 80s songs. It's got a lot of that reverb echo in the vocals. Kind of reminds me of the settings on a karaoke booth, you know. [Jenny] Yeah, that that that setting to make everybody sound halfway decent. [Laura] And it's got a cold open. What I mean is that it just starts one more night. It doesn't have an intro. It just starts with the vocals, which is kind of unusual for for a single. [Jenny] You know, nowhere for the DJ to talk to introduce the song. [Laura] No, you can't. You can't post it. And, you know, you'd have to have now it's on the computer. The computer will just fix that for you. But in the old card days, you'd have to have you'd have the title of the song, the artist, the length of the song, and then how long the intro was. And usually if it was something weird like it ends cold or starts cold, it would have a note like, hey, you know, pay attention to this. So this was Phil Collins' second number one single. The first one was Against All Odds. [Jenny] Another breakup song. [Laura] Another breakup song. So if you were thinking of a Phil Collins song, like, is there one Phil Collins song that would come to mind? [Jenny] Oh, in the air tonight. [Laura] Definitely. In the air tonight is definitely the most popular now. It was released in 1981 and it got to number 19 on the chart. So one more night was a much bigger hit at the time. [Jenny] That's that's crazy, because like. I don't know. I mean, in the air tonight, it's just. It's such a good song, like it sounds good. It's well, the drum piece. Everything about it, it's, you know, and then the mythology about whether or not he actually saw somebody. Commit a murder. Adds to the mystique of the song. [Laura] And there will be kind of a murder theme in this episode. Stay tuned. [Jenny] Yeah. [Laura] Yeah, I think I mean, I wonder when in the air tonight became as iconic. I don't know if it was maybe the Cadbury ad with the gorilla, you know, drumming, if that was when it became. [Jenny] That's right. I forgot about that completely. [Laura] Because it was a song I remember when I worked in radio and the person who was the traffic director, she she would say, like, I hate Phil Collins, but I like in the air tonight. But it was I don't think it was iconic then. Like, I don't think that was the consensus opinion at that time, you know. [Jenny] I think it just kind of grew on everybody. [Laura] Yeah, but there were so many Phil Collins songs. Between Phil Collins and Genesis. [Jenny] Yeah, I mean, he was kind of everywhere and there was never anything like and never anything negative that I could come up with. Like, the songs were good. I enjoyed them. I mean, even this one. One more night and it repeats it over and over. It's going to be the earworm I walk away from this episode with because it's going to be, you know, especially since it says the same thing over and over, I'll just get stuck in that loop. [Laura] Well, you know, I'm not sure that being an earworm and being a good song are necessarily like completely correlated. [Jenny] No, and I understand that. I'm not. But but I just feel like that Phil Collins songs are there. His upbeat ones are fun and catchy, and his his breakup song ones are so melancholy that you connect with them. And I guess I just I've always liked his stuff. [Laura] Yeah, I do remember putting against all odds on the jukebox one time after someone broke up with me. So he had good breakup songs. But he was an adult contemporary radio constant, and he was aware that he was overexposed and played too much, and that it was annoying people. He did an interview on Jonathan Ross' show, and he said, I will say in my defense, I only wrote the song once. I wrote the song once, and I recorded it once. After that, it's out of my control. Thank God the disc jockeys played it, because I can buy a house in Miami. [Jenny] It's true. It's not his fault. We like the songs, and people play them all the time. [Laura] No, it's a good thing, right? [Jenny] I would think so. [Laura] Okay, so do you have a grade for one more night? We had A for the Beatles. [Jenny] I'm going to give it a B, mostly because I just like Phil Collins, and so I don't feel comfortable giving him lower than that. But it's not my favorite Phil Collins song. [Laura] Yeah, it's kind of a C for me. Sorry. It's a C for me, because the fact that I forgot it means that it's kind of forgettable. And speaking of forgettable, how's that for a transition? The next song is Kenny G's Sentimental. This comes in when Clara meets Seth, and she's wearing a nine-inch nails shirt. And Seth, the morning guy, takes one look at her nine-inch nails shirt and says, You're going to hate it here. The weather guy says, He's kidding. And Seth says, Oh, really? And starts spinning Kenny G and Sentimental. [Jenny] He kind of gets her. [Laura] Yeah. Well, Sentimental was actually a 1993 release. But unlike the Joshua Kadison from Episode 2 that I just screwed up the timeline, this was not a mistake in the book. It was the fact that Kenny G is already mentioned in the first episode, and I didn't want to do the same track twice, even though the same artist is mentioned. [Jenny] Yeah, that makes total sense. And really, with Kenny G, it doesn't matter because they all sound the same anyway. [Laura] It's from his 1992 album Breathless. It's his biggest selling album. It sold 12 million copies. So a lot of people like this. [Jenny] Wow. This isn't even the Kenny G song I remember. [Laura] No, that's probably Songbird, the one from the first episode, which is a little bit more melodic than this one, at least I think so. Um, this one to me is like something you'd hear on hold music, you know, or in your dentist office waiting room or something. [Jenny] Yeah, this is the kind of music I put on when I'm grading. When I'm, you know, when I'm reading essays, because I need to concentrate, and I can't sit in the silence. So I put on music. And this is the kind of it's just it's light, fluffy, doesn't really mean anything. Nice sound in the background, but totally forgettable. So I'm not focused on it at all. [Laura] Yeah, there's a place for that. And you know, not to completely repeat from episode one. But the thing that gets me about Kenny G is not that people like this, because, you know, people need music to just relax to and unwind to and something that's not going to distract from something else, you know. But what is strange to me is just the idea that, like 12 million people rushed out at the same time to buy this record, because that's what it takes to get on the charts, you know, that at one moment, enough people were excited about Kenny G, that they all rushed out to buy it at once. [Jenny] Well, and it how did a slow jazz musician get on like, get out there where we all knew who he was? Like, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I know a few jazz players. Like I know who they are. But that's because my dad liked jazz music. [Laura] Well, there was a radio format in the early 90s that was kind of light jazz that was, you know, a new radio format. And maybe he just was like the right musician at the right time for this new format. [Jenny] And then there was some crossover because of it. [Laura] And he also had a world record for the longest sustained note. So he could play doing using this circular breathing, he could play a note for a really long time. And I wonder if there was almost, you know, how Mariah Carey around the same time was doing these like whistle notes at the top of her range. [Jenny] And yeah, and her vocal gymnastics that she used to do. [Laura] Yeah. And so maybe there was kind of a like, wow, you could hold a note for that long. You know, maybe that got him attention. I guess. I'm not sure of the timing of the world record and any of that. But I do remember the circular breathing and the really long note and that being something that people talked about at the time. [Jenny] I also remember at the time, like we all were like, why is this a hit? Like, like we were all like, even when he was popular, we all questioned why was he popular? [Laura] Right. Yeah. And there's actually, there's actually a documentary, he did this documentary. I think he, I think he's behind it. And it's sort of asking, like, you know, why does everybody hate Kenny G? So he's got a sense of humor about that. But. [Jenny] Well, I don't, I wouldn't say I hate Kenny G, I just don't get it. [Laura] Like, Yeah, well, like I said, there's, like I said, there's a place for that. And it's in the background, you know, and, and there's lots of great, you know, background music that doesn't grab your attention, and that people stream and stuff. But like I said, the, the chart success and the, I mean, just the huge success that he had at that time. I don't quite get it. [Jenny] It's a little mind boggling. And, and I'm not hating on him because I do his music is beautiful. But it's also forgettable. [Laura] Right? Well, especially to me, especially this one. And I keep forgetting the title too, sentimental. [Jenny] Sentimental. Yeah. Yeah. [Laura] Songbird. When I heard it, I was like, Oh, okay, I remember that. And I listened back to this one sentimental, which I think was the other big Kenny G. And I just didn't remember it. You know? [Jenny] Yeah, I didn't remember it either. I mean, I listened to it. It's very definitely Kenny G. But that's because he's playing a soprano sax, you know, and because that was his instrument of choice. Whenever I hear soprano sax, I think, Oh, that must be Kenny G. [Laura] So it's a song that Seth thinks that Claire would hate. And I'm sure she would. [Jenny] Yeah, he's probably right. Like I said, he gets her. [Laura] Yeah. So what is your grade for Kenny G and sentimental? [Jenny] It's a C. Average song. Forgettable. Yeah. [Laura] Yeah. I'm going to go there too. So I mentioned the murder mystery. [Jenny] Yes. [Laura] We've got another murder mystery. This is Richard Marx. And the song is Hazard, which was a huge adult contemporary hit. It peaked at number nine on the regular Billboard charts, but it topped the adult contemporary charts. And it was Marx's third number one single on the adult contemporary chart. It reached number one in Australia, Canada, Ireland, top 10 in New Zealand, Norway, Sweden. So it was a huge hit. And I think it was Richard Marx's biggest hit. And he thinks it's a dumb song. [Jenny] That's kind of awesome, actually. You are this huge songwriter. I mean, and not just for himself, but for other people. He's written Broadway hits. And then his biggest hit is the one that he doesn't even like. That's awesome. [Laura] He did a video that he posted about a year ago, and I guess he's got this series where it goes through his songs and he doesn't it looked like he doesn't know what song is going to come up, you know, and then he's going to he talks about him. And for the one for Hazard, he said it was a songwriting experiment and that he worked really hard on it and that the harder he worked on it, the dumber it got. And then it ended up being one of the biggest hits of his career. And after he finished it, he told an audience at another show that the only reason he recorded it was to prove that his wife at the time, now his ex-wife and some of his friends who thought it would be a big hit, were wrong. He was going to prove them wrong. He thought it sounded like, quote, a really stupid episode of Twin Peaks. [Jenny] He put it out for him. [Laura] Yeah, they were right. It was a big hit. [Jenny] And it makes him mad to hear it now because it's like I wanted to prove them wrong and I did not. [Laura] I did not. People really liked it. It's it's probably I mean, he says it's a departure. You know, it was a songwriting experiment. So it's something different from his normal way of writing and his normal kind of song. I think it's different for a lot of songs on the charts. It's not a love song. It's not about you know, let's go out and dance. It is about a murder in a small town in Nebraska. There it's Hazard is a town in Nebraska. It's a real town and it has a population of 57. [Jenny] I'm telling you, I thought I grew up in a small town with there were like 400 people in my town. That boggles my mind, 57. [Laura] Well, with a town of 57, obviously, you know, everybody in town, right? Everybody's in everybody's business. [Jenny] You're probably related to everybody in town. [Laura] Right. Everybody's cousin. So he comes to town with his mother. He's a he's a boy and I think she's a single mother. They come to Hazard and everyone in town thinks the kid is weird. You know, there's something wrong with this kid. And so he's kind of an outcast. But then as an adult or maybe a teenager, it's not really clear, but he meets Mary and she gets him. Yeah, he meets Mary and she's the only one who gets him and they go out and sit by the river and watch the sun go down. And so he has strong feelings for Mary. And then one day, Mary goes out walking all alone and she never comes home. And the police come knocking on his door and they think he did it because he's the weird one in town. So the chorus of the song has him saying he swears that he left her by the river. He left her safe and sound. You know, I didn't do it, Guv is the chorus of the song. [Jenny] But if she went out walking alone, how could he have done it? And how could he have left her at the right? [Laura] He swears he left her by the river. [Jenny] Yeah, but if he left her by the river and she was out walking alone, that's a little suspicious. [Laura] It is suspicious. It is suspicious. We don't know if he's a reliable narrator. You know, there are some problems with the story. Another problem with the story is that Hazard doesn't have a river, but we'll put that aside. [Jenny] Well, and I'm sure that the people in New Zealand who made it, you know, when they made it number one there, didn't know that. [Laura] So they didn't know that. I didn't know that until I looked it up, you know. But it was they promoted this song. They promoted the heck out of it by doing these commercials where they find Richard Marx fans and ask them who killed Mary. And the video has this whole, the whole story, you know, dramatized. It's in black and white. And you see the police taking him in. [Jenny] Oh, yeah. Because when I was watching it earlier to prepare for this, for this podcast, and I like the video because it's so literal. Like, yeah, there's no, it's not trying to change the story at all. It's like, here it is. This is what happened. [Laura] But a lot of the people that they interviewed, you know, they're trying to get clues from the video and people still online. You can find people discussing like who killed Mary, you know. [Jenny] Well, that's probably why it was a big hit is it's a good song, but it's more the controversy and the mystery of it that made it a hit, especially if they were promoting it with these commercials and whatnot, and really kind of pushing it out there. I can see where it became a big hit. [Laura] And I don't know, there aren't a lot of murder mystery songs, are there? Can you think of another murder mystery song? There are songs with murders in them. Right. In the Air Tonight is possibly a murder mystery song. [Jenny] Well, I was just thinking, like, when you said, you know, songs with murder, you're like, Janie's got a gun. We know who did it. It's in the title. [Laura] Yeah, it's not a mystery. It's not a mystery. No. So this one, yeah, you can listen and try to figure out from clues, but there aren't a lot of them. And I mean, Richard Marks himself says he doesn't know who killed Mary because Mary is fictional and he doesn't know anything more than what's actually in the song. [Jenny] Well, and I was thinking when you were talking about like, you know, the more he worked on it, the dumber he felt it got. You know, he just kept trying to fix it, like whatever it was he thought was wrong with it. And that's probably why he doesn't know who killed Mary is because he just gave up. He's like, I'm done. I don't care anymore. Let's just record it. You don't be done with it. [Laura] The funniest part of the YouTube video is at the end of it, he says, you know, people still come up to him and ask him who killed Mary, who killed Mary. And he said that the other thing they ask him is if the song was a true story and if it's autobiographical. And he just looks straight at the camera and he says, yes, I killed someone named Mary in Nebraska and wrote a song about it. [Jenny] So I could tell everyone. [Laura] Right. So obviously, no, it's not true crime. There was no Mary. There was no river for her to be found dead in or near in Nebraska, in a landlocked state. I had something in my head I was going to say about it, and it just flew right out of my head. It went to my head. Oh, I know what I was going to say. The thing about the song that strikes me, though, is that I feel like the music and the lyrics, the tone of the chorus and what is happening in the song don't sync up very well. So the narrator is being accused of murder, and he either has been found out and he is a murderer or he's being falsely accused of killing this woman that he loves, who is the only one who understood him. And it's just such a mellow, like, I swear I didn't kill her. You know, you think you'd be pretty upset. [Jenny] Yeah, there should be a lot more tension in that moment, regardless of which way it is, whether he did it or not. There should be some tension. [Laura] Yeah, it's very I mean, I suppose you could psychologically try to analyze it like it's distant, like he's, you know, he's saying this and it's all kind of at a distance. But I do feel like he should be protesting a little bit more energetically in the chorus. [Jenny] Well, yeah, because the song is supposed to be taking place in real time, like he's actually being interrogated right at that moment. It's not a recollection or a memory of what happened. It's happening now. So there should be some tension. [Laura] So what is your take? You have permission to not like it because Richard Marks thinks it's a stupid song. What is your overall grade for Richard Marks and Hazard? [Jenny] I think I'd probably give it a B because it is entertaining. And it's a little different, which makes it more entertaining, I think. But it's not my favorite Richard Marks song. Which is? Yep. You asked me and then I'll remember it like two hours. [Laura] I have editing ability. [Jenny] Oh, my God, what is that? Oh. [Laura] The only other one that's coming to my mind is Don't Mean Nothing. No, no, that's not it. That's not it. [Jenny] Richard Marks. Right Here Waiting. Okay, Right Here Waiting. [Laura] I think that was a big hit, too. [Jenny] Yeah, that's the one I really like. My God, I can't believe it. Brain just completely. And I knew you were going to ask me, too. [Laura] I think that Richard Marks' Hazard was a really big AC hit at this time. It's one of the biggest of the year, I think. That's just from my memory from seeing it at the time. And it's funny because I had forgotten it until this kind of like one more night. It was one that I had forgotten that I remembered. [Jenny] See, I don't remember it. Yeah. Yeah, I guess it didn't. I don't know how to explain it. Like when I listen to it, I don't remember hearing it before, but then it was also not like a totally new feeling when I heard it. So it must be in my brain somewhere. [Laura] I mean, it was a bigger adult contemporary song than it was a billboard song, although number nine is very respectable. But it could be that if you weren't listening to AC, you know, that you weren't hearing it. [Jenny] I didn't listen to AC probably till... I don't think I listened to AC until I moved to Cleveland area with an irregularity, and that would have been in the early 2000s. So that's probably why I don't remember it. I might have heard it in passing, so I never made any connection to it, which is why it's rattling around in there somewhere, but I don't remember it. [Laura] Well, let's do our wrap up of our four songs. We had The Beatles' Hey Jude. That was an A for both of us. Absolute, absolute classic. Phil Collins' One More Night. We gave it a C. A C. It's a nice, it's a nice song. It's Phil Collins. We like Phil. [Jenny] Yeah, but not a Phil Collins song I would go listen to by choice. [Laura] Kenny G and Sentimental. We gave a meh. [Jenny] Meh. I think we called it a C because he's a good musician and he doesn't deserve a D, but meh. [Laura] Yeah, you know, anybody who does the work, you know, I don't want to... I don't know if I'll go and give anybody a D throughout this, but we'll see. It's possible. Yeah. And Richard Marks, did we say? [Jenny] Did we give him a... I don't, we didn't. I don't think we did, but I would give him a B. Okay. [Laura] Richard Marks is a B, so a little more subdued than the first episode that we did together, but still not a bad result. Yeah, we really liked the music the first time around. Yeah, and this time we liked some of it, liked some of it more than others. Well, this was fun, and yeah, look forward to the next time. Next time, haven't selected the songs yet, figured out what we're doing, but we'll definitely do it again. Yeah, it'll be fun. I'm excited.